MIRACLES – AN ATTEMPTED REBUTTAL OF MY "NUMBER 5", AND MY RESPONSE

The following is an excerpt from an exchange that happened in the DMs between myself and a Twitter user (name withheld) who had read my article HOW I GAVE UP THE FAITH and attempted to irrationalise some of my reasons. He began with my number 5 in the article, in which I noted the sheer absence (or, at the very best, rarity) of real, clear, indubitable, incontrovertible and verifiable miracles. The messages have been edited for better readability (e.g., spell checks and re-punctuation), but other than that no major changes have been made. (Phrases in square brackets are not in the original conversation, but have been included to contextualise the exchange for readers.) His words are coloured blue.

HIM

Miracles are real! That you rarely or (as you later uncategorically amended your earlier use of "rarely") never saw them is not a reasonable proof that they don't occur. Also, they don't seem to be a logical basis for your conclusion that the Biblical references to miracles are false.

Going back to your statement, it is either you rarely saw miracles, which means you acknowledge they actually occur, or you never saw them at all. Which is it?

If you saw them but rarely, why is it a basis to conclude that the Bible claims about supernatural interventions are false? The rarity of a phenomenon shouldn't be a proof of their nonexistence. If anything it should point to the fact that it exists and could become more frequent if the necessary precipitating or prerequisite conditions are met. Could geographical location, spiritual environment and other facts that relate to you specifically have been a reason why you rarely saw miracles? In any event, miracles by their very nature are miracles, meaning that they are not the normal order or course of events. Shouldn't this be an important consideration to make?

If you never saw them at all, well it still doesn't mean they don't occur. I have never seen snow in my life (except on television) but that snow falls is a fact. For some people, they have seen snow but very rarely. Should I and those who have seen it rarely then conclude that snow doesn't fall? It would be unreasonable to arrive at that conclusion, in my view.

Are there fake or fabricated miracles? Of course! So are fake currencies, fake drugs, fake doctors, etc. Should we then say that all currencies, drugs, etc. are fake? In my view and in almost every instance, for there to be a fake, it invariably means that there is a genuine/authentic. People who make the fake do so as an imitation of the genuine.

I have seen miracles! I have read about miracles! I have experienced miracles. I have seen miracles happen through my own hands. Miracles defy logic and scientific explanation. I guess that's why they are miracles.

In 1997, shortly after I became a Christian, I joined a fellowship in the Catholic Church. I belonged to the intercessory group. One evening during our weekly meetings, a young man whom I knew before that day was brought in nearly dead in an unconscious and paralyzed state. He had screamed and started convulsing and was found in that state in his room. We were asked to pray for him. We started praying for him and at a point singing praises to God. My eyes were closed during this time until I started hearing shouts of excitement. To my utter amazement, in less than 20 minutes as I opened my eyes not only was he on his feet, he was dancing joyfully. You would never believe he was the same person that was brought in nearly dead. The interesting thing is that today, this same man is married to my Sister's husband's younger sister.

As an undergraduate in 2005 (my final year in school), I had attended a national conference of my campus fellowship in Abuja. On the last day virtually everyone had left the conference venue but being one of the leaders, I was still around. I saw a young lady laying on the bare ground muffling cries. I went close. You could see that she was in an incredible amount of pain. I asked if I could pray for her and she said yes. I prayed and within minutes , she was up and playing with her friends who were there.

I have read about several miracles in contemporary times which are very well documented by even non-Christian publications.

About answered prayers, you claim they are rare. My earlier arguments on rarity of miracles will apply. Also, who determines whether answered prayers are real, frequent or rare? You possibly can't be the determinant. God answers my prayers. When I ask Him to help me sort out stuff, He does. I wonder how many coincidences that people can have in their lives and why these coincidences choose to happen right after you have prayed about something? How can you ascribe events that happen right after someone had prayed for them to happen to coincidence and luck but never to the God who they prayed to for those events to occur? That reasoning appears to me to be borne out of prejudice and a desire to oppose God and to prove His "non-existence" at all costs. I find it somewhat dishonest that a person who thinks that a series of occurrences - market fire - happening within a short period of time must have been connected to each other and planned arsons at the same time ascribes events that occur after someone has prayed for them to coincidence and luck.

Also, how does a person who claims that many of the things people claim are answered prayers are naturally explainable also say they could be luck? What is luck? How do you naturally explain luck?

I have prayed many times for things and God answered me. My experiences of God are too real for me to imagine even imagine that He doesn't exist or to be explained away by some scientific and philosophical theories.

ME 

With all due respect, I've heard responses like this before. They don't solve the central problem of my contention – why are real, clear, indubitable, incontrovertible, verifiable miracles not available? That's the contention.

As I said [in the article], I only used the word "rarely" to be conservative. In actuality, I never saw any miracle. Nor did any miracle I was told about ever require a supernatural explanation or preclude a natural one.

On your analogy of snow – and you would know a lot about false analogies, since you accused me of using one yesterday – if I have never seen, heard of or experienced snow in any form whatsoever, and you come to tell me that snow exists, it would be unreasonable of me to believe you just because you say so. I would need evidence. Now, your inability to provide any convincing evidence for snow many not disprove the existence of the snow; rather, it justifies me in disbelieving your claim that snow exists. If you are making a claim, especially an extraordinary claim like the suspension or manipulation of natural laws with 'metaphysical' means like words, wishes and thoughts, then you must be ready to present evidence.

Which brings me to the next point. Presenting anecdotal evidence is useless, really. Telling me a story of something you or someone else witnessed in 1997 proves nothing. Telling me there are several anecdotal reports of miracles is useless also, because people report all sorts of things. Alien abductions, Bigfoot, the Nessie monster, the "mystery" of the Bermuda triangle, all sorts of things. Take your 1997 story, for example. I cannot verify the story independently. I cannot even investigate it to know that it actually happened, let alone to determine if your interpretation of the event was accurate. So it really changes nothing. Besides, I'm guessing you probably wouldn't accept miracle claims from other religions such as shamanism, Islam and Hinduism, although they also regularly report miracles. That you don't understand a phenomenon properly doesn't justify your tagging it supernatural. Not to mention that I can also cite several anecdotes of miracles NOT happening, which would then mean I can conclude that miracles do NOT happen, by your standards. If no, why not?

Finally, observations have been made and studies done on the verity of miracles and the effectiveness of prayers. And the evidence shows that they simply do not work! That's it!

Until you have GOOD EVIDENCE that miracles occur, I reject your dismissal of my fifth point as not enough basis for disbelief in God.

One more thing. You made mention of fake and real miracles. So I make it my question to you – how do you distinguish between a real and a fake miracle? How do you distinguish a fake one from a real one?

HIM

That you never saw a miracle is not a reasonable basis to conclude that they don't occur. You said you never saw, I told you I have not only seen, I have experienced it severally. You need verification for my assertion that I have seen miracles. Your claim that you haven't seen miracles doesn't need verification? Why are your claims superior to mine? You have never seen miracles is your personal experience. I have seen miracles is my personal experience. Additionally, I alluded to several documented miracles in contemporary times. You dismissed it without asking for where you can check them, then ran off to tell me about studies carried out that show that prayers don't work.

You response to my analogy about snow is you admitting that the absence of facts or better still, a perfect presentation of evidence to prove the existence of a thing doesn't mean that the thing doesn't in fact exist.

So miracles may well exist but you are waiting for someone to prove it to you. "Observations have been made and studies done" to show that miracles and prayers don't work. So much for someone asking for evidence to prove that they exist. I'm to take that line to the bank but not the Bible which tells me they exist and my experience and those of many others which confirm to me that they exist. Disbelief in God is just what it is — disbelief. It changes nothing about His existence.

I mentioned fake miracles because you claimed that some of the testimonies of miracles or answers to prayers are outright falsehood. Interesting that you lost sight of all the other things that could be faked and focused on miracles.

ME

"That you never saw a miracle is not a reasonable basis to conclude they don't occur." Yes it is! Anything that is neither proved nor disproved is unproven, so at best you can only be agnostic about it. And since every investigation of every miracle claim I've heard has shown that there was nothing miraculous about them, then I'd be unreasonable to claim to be agnostic about something against which evidence counts.

Lol you're so funny. So I have to prove to you that I haven't seen miracles? How exactly am I supposed to prove that, open up my brain and show you the records of non-miracles in my memory? That's ridiculous! My claim is simple – I have not seen any miracle claim that turned out to be miraculous or (if I wanted to be generous and assert that a miracle truly happened) unexplainable by any natural means. That's my assertion.

Maybe you should show me these unnamed documents of miracles you're appealing to. Let me read them and verify them myself. Then we'll talk.

Again, you miss the entire point of the snow analogy. I never said that you not showing me a snow proves that snow doesn't exist. All I said was that you not showing me snow justifies my disbelief of your claim that snow exists. Keep attacking a strawman argument I'm not making.

All the proofs given of miracles today have failed so far. So until you give proof that they do exist, I am justified in believing that they don't. If you want me to show you the studies that have been done on prayers and miracles, I can share them with you right away. Scientific research has been done into these claims and they've been debunked.

Of course, I never said it's more than disbelief. You are attacking a strawman argument that nobody is making. I said I don't believe that a God exists! That's what my article says! I don't know who claims God does not exist that you're rebutting.

And I asked a simple question – how do you differentiate between a fake miracle and a real miracle? 

Let me give you a good example. In Exodus 7:8-12, When Aaron dropped his rod and it became a snake, the Egyptians also did the same. So which one is the fake miracle in that case, and which is the real one? How would you differentiate? Tell me.